History of Ludwig Drums
The Ludwig Drum Company was originally established in Chicago, Illinois, in 1909 by brothers William F. and Theobald Ludwig. The company’s first factory was located at 1728 N. Damen Avenue in Chicago. In 1929, due to economic challenges, Ludwig & Ludwig was sold to the C.G. Conn instrument company, which subsequently moved manufacturing operations to Elkhart, Indiana. In 1937, William F. Ludwig Sr. established the WFL Drum Company in Chicago, resuming drum production there. By 1955, he reacquired the Ludwig name from Conn, rebranding his company as The Ludwig Drum Company. The Chicago factory operated until 1984, after which production was relocated to Monroe, North Carolina. Additionally, the Musser manufacturing facility, acquired by Ludwig in 1965, remained in LaGrange, Illinois, until 2013, when it was moved to Elkhart, Indiana.
Bill F Ludwig III Drum Company — the Ludwig family’s latest family-owned endeavor in drum making — https://www.wfliiidrums.com/
They are moving to thin-wall / single-ply without wraps but instead painted finishes!
“Let’s be even more honest, the “wraps” were also deadly-dulling to the snap and open-air sound. Let’s be honest; all wraps squash the sound quality.”
DW was for many years promoting “20-ply” and other such nonsense that seemed (and sounded) like hefting a bunch of blankets over top of each other…Total Sound Deadening. I always wondered WHY. Now I see why my wondering was piqued.
It’s funny just this week was I looking for “THE OTHER HALF” of my mid 1970s “ROCKERS” kit, which is (I think) the last 6-ply shell kit made in Chicago before the move/sale…before the acrolite crap, before the composite crap, before a lot of the cheapening and Tonal Ruinity that occurred. Drummers say this 6-ply blue/olive badge shell is the toniest. Interesting how Ludwig himself has stuck with the 6-ply design as the basic truth in shell design. No tomfoolery with grain cuts or wood flavors…and the thing about 20-plies was just absurd. In the end, there is no experience like experience. Maybe I’ll have “THE OTHER HALF” of my kit simply made fresh — VERY COOL what’s going on w/ WFL3 — V E R Y C O O L
Apr 1, 2019 Drum History Podcast
Bill Ludwig runs us through the fascinating history of Ludwig Drums! Grandson of the Ludwig founder, William F. Ludwig, his family has had a long and winding history with the Ludwig drum company – founding it in 1909 with a subsequent sale of the company in the early 80’s. They have gone through many ups and downs in that time, from losing the rights to the family name, to Ringo changing the world on The Ed Sullivan Show. Ludwig has always been an integral part of drumming since the drum set has existed. Bill, aka B3, is “starting over” with his new drum company, WFLIII Drums! They are a beautiful homage to a classic style of drums with all the modern touches we have today.
It basically started as a I Made It For Myself Because I Needed It and then grew into a true “trap” company. From there, drums, then legend. By mid 1950’s, Ludwig was a one-stop, do-it-all-yourself shop — everything was made at Damen Ave except the chrome plating.
Transcript
0:00
[Music] welcome to the drum history podcast I am
0:07
your host Bart van der Zee and I am joined today by William F Ludwig the 3rd
0:13
bill how are you good thank you so much for being here I can't tell you how
0:18
excited I am I feel like I'm talking to two drum royalty here well thank you very much I appreciate you having me and
0:25
hello to all your listeners out there great holiday awesome why don't we just go ahead and
0:32
without further ado hop into the history of Ludwig and run through that and then
0:38
we'll end up with what you're doing today which is WFL three drums which are
0:44
from what I've heard amazing and I'm excited to try them out here in the next couple months and then we're gonna
0:51
finish up with some listener submitted questions which is a new kind of subject
0:58
we're doing on drum history so I think that'll be a lot of fun great awesome perfect so I'll let you take it away so
1:03
how did it all begin my grandfather was a percussionist playing drums in the
1:10
circus and even the back up further than that when his parents moved to the
1:16
United States from Germany his father was a violinist and his mother was a singer and his father wanted him to play
1:24
violin and he was adamant about after seeing a parade and the drummers he said
1:31
I want to be a drummer and I'm so thankful for that because I wouldn't be
1:37
good at violence yes I can't see me with a violin no I'm sorry but at any rate so
1:44
he you played drums for the circus and as a touring drummer and they were
1:50
horse-drawn carriages at the time that's how long ago it was and during the off-season which was the winter he ended
1:59
up in Chicago getting a gig with a vaudeville act and being that the music was more up-tempo the bass drum pedal he
2:08
had just wasn't cutting it and and we have one of his bass original bass drum pedals which
2:13
I don't know maybe 16 inches long wood footboard with a huge 14 or 16 inch high
2:20
beater all wood very slow very clumsy and not portable so he developed his own
2:30
bass drum pedal in his garage and all the sudden meeting started using that at
2:36
gigs and it was small fold it up went in your pocket and people were just
2:41
freaking uncle where did you get that well I made it it will make me one so
2:47
that's how he started and then his brother Theobald was a drummer also and
2:52
they together grew from the garage to an actual little drum shop mainly doing
2:59
drum repairs and helping people fix trainers and little things like that and
3:07
making bass drum pedals so that's how it all started and then he got another gig
3:12
down the road with it opera and playing timpani and they were hand - and timpani
3:18
at the time which he thought boy this is a drag I wish I could do this with my feet and he do I left the foot tuned
3:25
timpani which is still you know one of the best action foot tuned actions out
3:32
there now and he just made things for himself out of necessity and then
3:38
eventually other drummers would come to him and tell that tell him what they
3:43
needed which is how it grew into the sound effects you were mentioning earlier drummers there's like two or
3:51
three drummers at a silent movie behind the screen playing all the sound effects
3:56
to go along with the movie that they're watching from behind so the train goes by they make a train sound a boat goes
4:03
by they do a boat whistle and all these drummers were coming to my grandfather goal and I need this I need that and it
4:10
so he started making them and pretty soon he had I don't know I hit five or six pages of the catalogue devoted to
4:19
the sound effects and all you know three different levels of boat whistles three
4:25
different kinds of train was and gunshot machine and rooster crow and duck call and all these crazy things to
4:33
go with the silent movies and that was to me that it was just interesting and
4:39
fun to see and work with some of those those items yeah those are I I talked
4:46
about in the first episode but it's just amazing how real they sounded and how much thought was put into each one to
4:52
sound like a horse and to sound like the Train and they're beautiful handcrafted instruments yes yes and it's how did you
5:01
come up with an idea of I need something to sound like a train going by and it's
5:08
just unbelievable how he came up with those things and they still work today and I'm not using my I do a history of
5:15
percussion clinic and I use them from the 1930s still so that's interesting to
5:22
me yeah they don't they don't make them like they used to I guess because so
5:28
yeah so after the that period in the in the 20s yeah why don't you pick it up
5:34
from there what's going on at that time well that's really an interesting question because to skip ahead and then
5:42
I'll go back to that I was working at Ludwig from company with my father in my
5:50
early 20s there I guess mid 20s and they came out with the linn drum machine yeah
5:55
and I went into my dad's office and I said oh my god this is awful they've got
6:02
this computer to do drumming now for a studio work and all these drummers are
6:07
going to be out of work and it's going to crush us and he said we know it it won't it happened before and it'll come
6:13
it'll change and everything will swing back to regular acoustic drums what do you mean it happened before well
6:19
apparently when they came out with talking movies every drummer was out of
6:24
work the next day because the theater owners were just like oh no we don't need you we're talking movies now so my
6:31
grandfather panicked and along with the depression looming depression and talk
6:40
in movies my grandfather sold the business to con me at the time only
6:46
ddrum company and they wanted to team up their theory was if they came DUP Ludwig
6:53
with lead II it would help boost the lead II sales for their drum sales in
6:58
general and so he went ahead and sold to them and started working for them and
7:05
they were in Elkhart Indiana and the over the years couple of years he wasn't
7:12
getting along with them they weren't doing new product development the way he thought it should be done
7:18
they weren't doing a lot of things the way he thought it should be done so that's what triggered him to say I'm out
7:25
of here I'm going back to Chicago and starting my own drum company again and their response to that was well that's
7:31
nice but we owned your name and he said fine I'll use my initials so that's how
7:38
WFL drum company came about and he was very smart to put very small underneath
7:49
the logo William F Ludwig president everybody immediately do Oh lovely and
7:56
they associated the lovely name and products with quality and good customer
8:03
service so that's how he rebuilt the company in in those early days to what
8:12
it became is the largest most famous name on drums yeah that's fascinating
8:17
because I know with what I've heard from Kahn is that they just didn't really
8:23
care they wanted to make money off of Ludwig and Leedy right and as Rob Cook
8:29
said they just called it the the sawdust Factory they didn't refer they didn't care about it it just it wasn't anything
8:34
so yeah yeah well and that that type of
8:39
accounting mentality numbers only you know trickles down to the product to
8:45
the image of the company and the way customers were treated and you know a
8:51
music business is different musicians or a different breed and somebody buying
8:58
a car or some other item you know it's just yeah it has to be treated
9:05
differently yeah exactly it's uh it's just something special and people there's there's other drum companies you
9:11
can buy so I know I'm personally really brand loyal and I feel a connection my first real drum set was Ludwig's so I
9:17
feel a connection to Ludwig and I think I think a lot of people do it just has this gives you a certain kind of feeling
9:24
yeah well we did was form along yeah and
9:29
I'll just leave it at that the whole Kanpur cushon division was going down and they weren't doing a lot
9:36
to keep it alive so WFL drum company just started to take off and you know as
9:45
I said people were people knew it was my grandfather's so that got a lot of attention and a lot of drummers coming
9:51
back to him and they you know he started in a small rented shop at Chicago and
10:00
all of a sudden grew to another floor of the building and all of a sudden bought the building and next thing you know we
10:06
were you know just expanding like in leaps and bounds it was unbelievable
10:12
that's always finally occupied the whole city block Wow yeah so to start like
10:21
that to start over in a basement type rental shop with money borrowed from his
10:28
friends and his wife and you know anybody he could just to get going to
10:35
become the biggest drum company in the world is pretty amazing it is I mean it's just a it's kind of the underdog
10:41
story so how did he get the name back why don't we pick it up there well in
10:47
1955 I believe the con company had just
10:55
officially shut down all percussion manufacturing available for 1955 and
11:03
then in 1955 my father I was born my father thought well you know what if
11:10
we could get our name back and go back to Ludwig drum company then that would
11:15
just cement our future so dad went ahead and had a meeting with Kahn and bought
11:22
the name back and then with at the time
11:27
we were you know really expanding and I think we bought muster mallets company
11:35
and then a case company so we changed
11:43
from Ludwig drum company to Ludwig industries just as the no main company
11:49
with divisions under it yeah the kind of parent company I didn't know that I didn't get a case company know about
11:54
muster but not the the cases oh yeah yeah we we bought a case company
12:00
Schuessler Oh guys it was cold that's eh Fischler never I should call
12:06
the based company and we bought them and moved them into our into another shop we had and took their employees so we kept
12:14
the same quality and same manufacturing processes and and so then we were
12:19
full-service later we were the only company that made our own hardware shell sticks heads
12:26
cases everything was made on Damon Avenue the only thing that wasn't done there was the chrome plating
12:32
well one-stop shop it was my grandfather's you know the German
12:38
mentality of to do something like do it yourself yeah and that way we can control our
12:45
quality and keep an eye on everything so now we're about the mid 50s and you have
12:50
got the name back so everything is going great it there now Ludwig drums there's
12:56
some subsidiary companies like the cases and muster percussion instruments so
13:03
then we get into the 1960s which obviously was a massive time of change
13:10
in in music across the world yes and at the time you know we had quite a few of
13:17
the top jazz artists around and knew that the power of endorsements was so strong
13:26
so when what I can Rahl started to evolve we were going after that market
13:32
and then you know the next thing you know that small band from England hit
13:38
the Ed Sullivan Show what was in the yeah some of the BN yeah and Ringo you
13:47
know saw this new finish we had and black oyster parlance at all I've got to
13:52
have that and would was only Ludwig made that well I want to play an american-made product dang out and so he
14:00
bought his first black wasted kit and the next thing you know they were in that sullivan man and then everything
14:05
changes from there and oh the next day the next day a change I mean it was I was in fourth grade setting on mom and
14:13
dad's living room floor watching the show and I thought wow her name keeps
14:19
popping up everywhere and in every shot of of John or Paul or George and it had
14:25
the lovely glow go behind them you know and it was just like so the next day our
14:31
phones were ringing off the hook the customer service bonds with everybody all the dealers saying and customers
14:38
saying you know I want to buy our Ringo kitchen and the customer service people are seeing what's Ringo and my father's
14:45
like just shut up and write the order just write their name down yeah and God oh and and then we go to the
14:54
demand was so high we went to 24 hours a day six days a week when I was cranking
15:02
a lot of drums out the door at that point I mean you know 24 hour production
15:08
and we were still like nine months behind and blacklister Perl Mike Wow what did one of those drum what did one
15:14
like cost at that point do you remember no I think I hate to say around 700 $800
15:23
yeah that's about I mean at that point cymbal stand - cymbal stands I hi-hat
15:29
the bass drum pedal and wow that's amazing I mean the image of you sitting
15:35
there in family I mean was it just like I guess at the moment you're watching it you
15:40
didn't really realize how huge that is until the next day when no any or just no it's just going crazy I had no idea
15:48
and then I really had no idea until Dan came home that night said wow we got a
15:54
lot of orders for this gringo for later you know Ringo guy black oyster pearl that's okay
16:00
that's cool I did when I was in fourth grade I didn't think about it that much but but I was actually started working
16:08
in the factory shortly after that and I think was in the fourth grade fourth
16:16
grade year and dad said you don't want to come down on Saturdays and open mail
16:22
and you know after so I would open this huge pile of mail and stamp it receipt
16:29
with the date and then put it I'll try to separate them from customer to dealer
16:34
piles and when I was done with that my pay was I got to play with the
16:39
switchboard which at the time was the old fashioned with the cords that came
16:45
out and you plugged in yeah lights and switches and the headset and I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen
16:52
that's funny yeah well that's a group they literally grew up in the factory
16:57
and then you know I got on and play in the factory and then eventually started
17:03
working there every summer and different departments and loved it obviously Ludwig had been
17:10
around for 50-plus years at that point 1909 going to about 1965 but that is
17:17
though I mean would you consider that the pivotal breakthrough moment to just
17:22
go worldwide massive everyone knows Ludwig well we were already worldwide
17:28
and you were already quite big but that just took us to a whole nother area I
17:35
mean just it was like a rocket taking off I mean it was just unbelievable and
17:42
you know all of a sudden all of our displays and conventions doubled in size
17:47
and yeah you know we had to get more staff and more salespeople and larger
17:56
warehousing facilities for raw materials and it was it was just unbelievable and
18:02
when we did build the new factory a new addition after Ringo I'll never forget
18:10
that hit the blueprint spread out again on the living room floor and bought a toy semi-truck and said to me here play
18:19
with this and take it in and out of that entrance and then out the other side to make sure you can turn that corner and
18:25
make sure it fits and so that's how we built the factory so we could pull a
18:30
semi completely indoors out of the weather and unload everything check the
18:38
inventory and then the semi would continue out the other door and on its way
18:43
and it was really a slick situation because you know dealing with wood and
18:49
the pull wraps and things like that you don't want to be taking that out of a semi in a snowstorm and and/or rain so
18:58
that was just perfect Wow and are you in were you in Elkhart in this point in
19:04
Indiana or were you guys back in Chicago oh no when my grandfather left time he
19:10
left Elkhart and back to Chicago yeah it seems like there's some bad bad feelings towards Elkhart from some drummers who
19:17
were forced to go there yeah oh yeah well that's another story but yeah but
19:23
yeah my grandfather started restarted on Damon and not far from Damon Avenue and
19:30
then I think he moved a couple of blocks over to Damon Avenue when he started to expand and was at that address
19:37
17:28 North Damon's or you know since the early or late 40s I guess or mid 40s
19:48
well and that's where I grew up basically you know it is and it was funny as we added as we grew we would
19:56
take over a building next to us or build a build another building and then attach
20:01
them all with walkways and covered hallways
20:07
that would fit a forklift up and down it but there are all different heights different ages and so you'd walk through
20:14
one part of the building and it's kind of leaning to the right and the next building is leaning a little to the left
20:19
but that's awesome but but it was our place and it's it was quite a place to
20:27
cool up yeah I mean you are a you're one lucky guy to be to be in that family and
20:32
I mean obviously I'm sure it wasn't with all of the the sales and up-and-down of people buying the company and the name
20:38
and losing the name and getting the name I'm sure it's not it's not all you know Ringo on The Ed Sullivan Show there was
20:46
a whole you know unbelievable roster of endorsers that supported us in jazz and
20:54
rock you know Joe Morello yeah Buddy Rich was with us a few times here came
21:01
and went yeah you know weighed the dough Roy Haynes Max Roach and then the rock
21:08
guys came into it carmine with Vanilla Fudge John Bonham was the plan and
21:15
Ginger Baker and it was just unbelievable yeah the the I just when
21:22
people think of classic drums like I was saying before I think it's Ludwig and it's not just Ringo like you just said
21:28
there's a huge roster of people like I just on my social media stuff posted a
21:34
video of Alex Van Halen who's another longtime Ludwig guy so it's just well it's it's
21:40
just so cool so picking it up after Ringo which is kind of the major you
21:46
know that the peak the top of the mountain there what happened after that was it all smooth sailing for a little
21:52
while I mean you get you get into Zeppelin right after that with Bonham who is obviously many drummers favorite
21:58
you know favorite guy so yeah what was it like after that well I was still busy
22:04
you know and they don't struggle so I mean with with that much increase in
22:10
production you've got to watch the quality you know we had a few
22:15
glitches with quality but you know those are just normal business problems that
22:22
pop up and but but we grow continue to grow another one of our great endorsers
22:31
was Roger Polk playing with Elton John who was doing some incredibly big shows at that time and it was just exciting
22:42
yeah a lot of fun a lot of excitement and a lot of work I worked a couple of
22:47
summers in customer service and boy the phone's just never stopped and looking
22:53
back on those times now I just chuckle because there was no computers no you
22:59
know voice messages or answering machines so you had to just get somebody
23:04
on the phone looking for an order and then you had to go out and find the order while they were on hold you know
23:10
and it was quite interesting I mean nowadays with computers and everything
23:15
like that it would have been a lot simpler but yeah we made it work yeah really now you can just get on and
23:21
order a Ludvik drum set from probably 500 different websites and it you know
23:26
comes from a different store this and that that's uh yeah yeah that's pretty
23:31
cool you know same with managing your inventory control I mean it would be so much simpler with a computer than a guy
23:38
walking through a department once a week County and how many 14-inch shells we had left yeah you know and better get
23:46
that count right and we're gonna be in trouble next week yeah a lot of room for error obviously which is kind of eliminated yeah yeah yeah yeah but but I
23:55
enjoyed it is as I said I done during summers another job I had was they had
24:01
sent me on the road with a couple of our salesmen for like two three weeks at a time and I would ride with them Reverend
24:10
had its own dedicated sales force which was huge and going to the dealer's store
24:16
and I would just observe and I'd be writing the order as the salesman did the talking and I learned an awful lot
24:24
during those times and that was a lot of fun not to now I gotta
24:31
ask did you use the the famous like the salesman oh I forget the actual name but
24:37
the finish that has the kind of rows of different Ludwig finishes on it would they take that around with them and say
24:43
hey here's our Sparkle finishes and here's all that that was a little before my time before I did there by the time I
24:51
got involved in it we they had real nice like three inch by two inch rectangles
24:58
of each finish on a keychain oh cool and you just keep that in your briefcase
25:03
and just put that out and say here's what we have now a little little easier
25:08
to carry that around I always I love that I know people the Black Keys drummer plays that finish are you still
25:14
like yeah right well that's yeah that was an interesting time and then when we
25:19
came out with vista light you know that was another big addition to the line and
25:27
manufacturing challenges yeah I'm sure now were you guys the first I know
25:33
Phibes had the acrylic stuff going on and around that time were you the first acrylic drum maker or was someone before
25:42
you well I'd say Phibes was before us and I think you might have been a couple
25:48
of custom shops but I'm pretty sure we were the first to do colored plastics
25:54
and then because my father we were both of us were always taking people on a
26:00
tour of the factory and my dad would go through the Vista Lite department and see he'd be talking to people and and
26:07
looking at this pile of scraps and go man it'd be great if we could use it
26:12
somehow and that's when he came up with the idea told the engineers let's glue a
26:18
couple of these pieces together and make the two colored shell oh yeah cold world you know in this world so our
26:24
engineering department came up with those the other cool thing about ludley because we had our own engineering
26:30
department which was huge yeah to be able to go in and sit with a couple of guys or I bring an endorser or a drum
26:37
tech in and say he keeps breaking his hi-hat pedal you know show him where it
26:42
breaks and then work on it and come out with a fix for that but the engineers developed the
26:48
plastic molding or welding at me so instead of glue it actually this
26:54
whatever material they came up with melted both seams of the plastic so it
27:00
was like welding steel and it never you know the drums that we did have drank
27:05
never failed on the scene was always you know either somebody dropped it on a log
27:10
or somebody dropped something on the show and it cracked somewhere else but never on the scene which that just blew
27:17
my mind yeah I mean it's some unbelievable there's a Ludwig engineering department and a lot of
27:22
those drums have held up like you see beautiful Vista lights to this day and it's usually like you said user error
27:28
where they got dropped or something like that yeah yeah yeah yeah so time went on
27:36
I finally got the company full-time after college and started doing
27:44
advertising for the company the catalogues and posters and flyers and
27:50
things and then two weeks into that job which is not what I studied in college I
27:56
studied Industrial Management and industrial psychology to go into running
28:02
the factory yeah yeah I thought I would be doing you knew what you were gonna like that's kind of nice you went to college with a hey I know what I'm gonna
28:09
be doing I just need to get the right knowledge to perform Yeah right and so I
28:16
get out of college and dad says I just fired the advertising manager you're
28:22
gonna do that and I just hit the floor I said but but but but he studied it
28:28
oh you'll learn yeah so he show he takes me back to the advertising department with three people in it all season you
28:36
know pros and you know here's your new boss me ran out of college I'm like hey
28:42
and and they said you know have you ever done a layup for an ad no oh god yeah
28:50
they're showing me things bit by bit and I'm starting to trying to get a grip on
28:55
it and like two weeks into that dad walks back to my cubicle and says I just fired the honest relations
29:03
manager you're going to do that too at the same time Wow yeah and I think that's profound of what
29:09
I said and more or less different vocabulary but anyway but I haven't even
29:15
learned this job and I'll never forget my father walking out of the department waving over his shoulder not training or
29:23
anything and juice is your lawn God he trusts you that's for sure
29:28
well and luckily you know I was a drummer I've been a drummer since age six and playing some rock bands in high
29:36
school and college and so I know that drummers needed I knew you know what was
29:42
going on with with the rock'n'roll world so that that luckily put me in a good
29:48
position to get to know all the artists right away say you know after watching
29:54
you playing why don't you try this standard why don't you try these heads and making the proper recommendations
30:01
and everybody grew to trust me and appreciate that input so we all sudden
30:07
our artists became very loyal and dedicated and friends personal friends
30:14
of mine and my father's and again going back to the time there were no cell
30:20
phones no texting no computers so everybody had my home phone number so
30:27
anything comes up you know on the road call me anytime 24/7 and you know as a
30:35
lot of times things came up where if I couldn't get a dealer local dealer to get the guy his parts or girl I would
30:45
fly out okay I get the part oh yeah oh oh yeah fly to the gig no luggage just
30:52
slide in a gig rent a car deliver the party spend the night fly home the next
30:57
day in fact if we have time there was a pretty funny story talking about fiscal
31:03
aids Michaels Rocher was playing with heart yeah and they were opening for Electric Light
31:09
Orchestra on their big stadium tour indoor stadiums and you know there's 60 foot round flying saucer
31:17
as the stage and it was very very big production so he played the John Bonham
31:24
style kit but white Vista light so about ten o'clock in the morning I get a call from his drum tech they dropped they
31:32
were loading the bass drum on the stage on a forklift and it slipped off and fell I don't know how many feet 40 feet
31:40
or something like shattered and shattered not just cracked shut and I'm
31:45
like okay what I said what time you go on he said we go on at 7:00 I said I'll
31:51
see you before 7:00 and I call my guy in the shop Felix who is my endorser
31:58
right-hand man said Felix go up what you're doing and make a 26 inch white pistol light for
32:05
Mike Durocher right now and he goes what what about you know this water over there Zeppelin order
32:10
that or I'm like just just get this order done right now oh my god hey it
32:15
was the same day Wow yeah and they were playing at the Pontiac Silverdome outside of Detroit so
32:23
next thing I called your line put myself a flight to Detroit call my father and
32:28
said you know in a couple hours can you give me a ride to the airport sure so I I go out and help him pack the Vista
32:36
light bass drum which was still warm and dad takes me to the airport I get out
32:43
there I had to run a station wagon cuz it's the only thing that up 26 would fit in and now I'm in rush hour traffic
32:49
creeping up the freeway to a gig and I get there like it's 6:15 you know or so
32:57
and every backstage person knew I was coming and just kept pointing me to the
33:02
back and I get the right to the back door and there's two golf carts they throw the bass drum and one golf cart
33:08
take it to this because this is you know Pontiac Silverdome 7000 people yeah and so they take the bass drum and one
33:16
golf cart put me in the other golf cart take me to the dressing room and I walked in in the band just what
33:25
we're gonna beer said thank you you saved us oh my god Wow and so they gave
33:34
me a hotel key I spent the night flew home the next day in the same clothes unbelievable I mean wow I'm gonna have
33:40
time to pack I didn't have time to get a toothbrush you know customer service right there man that's amazing yeah oh
33:48
god I can't do it I can't leave you turning around that day I mean you could just say I need a crystallite right now
33:55
I mean I guess they don't take weeks to make but wow that is awesome no no but it takes hour a couple hours and you
34:02
know the clock was ticking so yeah on a on a not standard I mean how many 26
34:07
inch Vista light bass drums are being made that's exactly yeah that's awesome so that was that was a challenge but so
34:16
what you're with what year was that did a lot of us that was probably 26 76 77
34:23
so getting back in the the timeline here so we're approaching when there was
34:28
another sale of the business then correct kind of in the early 80s yes it
34:35
was November 5th 1981 not that I remember but and oddly enough that was
34:44
to a company in Elkhart Indiana oh good old Elkhart this summer is a summer
34:50
company and yeah so that it started that
34:57
again and when that happened dad and I we had an agreement to work for them for
35:05
five years and dad and I both stayed 10 years because of our law for the company and
35:14
they were starting to run us the wrong
35:19
way with their last you know lack of engineering lack of do product development lack of artist support so
35:27
after 10 years which was 1991 they
35:34
parted company with me that was that was that was the end of my
35:42
life in the drum business which was a huge loss to me and but it just wasn't
35:52
the same anymore I mean it wasn't the family feel they were all corporate and I went on my way
35:59
I went into another business I got involved in restaurant business for a
36:05
while and then I did something after I discovered that was brutal yeah I did
36:12
some various office jobs Office of Management jobs you know things that I
36:20
didn't like but I had two young daughters at the time and he got to pay
36:26
the bills yeah yeah so then finally that was five years ago I I moved out to the
36:34
bird so my daughters could go to a good high school because we lived in downtown Chicago and it was just unbelievable to
36:43
you know move into a place putting up pictures and I had this picture of my grandfather in the kitchen and I kept
36:51
looking at the picture and he looks so proud and he looks so happy because he's
36:58
in the factory testing a drop so for some reason five years ago I took that
37:05
picture off the wall and in the back in my father's handwriting it's a senior starting over age 63 1940
37:15
and I was coming up I was 59 at the time and I thought god damn it if you can do
37:22
it I can do it yeah so ah excuse me so
37:30
that's what pushed me over the edge to start WFL three drums yes which is where
37:36
we're at today yeah yes and I couldn't be happier I'll tell you because they see what I love
37:45
doing and you know my grandfather started over he was 58 to 59 when he first got back to
37:53
Chicago so the picture I have is a couple years after they got into production while he lived to be 93 and
38:01
was in the factory every day up until two weeks before he died my god so he's 90 93 years old in the
38:08
drum factory that's awesome yeah yeah and you know smoking cigars out in the
38:13
shop picking up quality mistakes you know bitching at people they hurry up and oh
38:19
yeah he was but he was doing what he loved yeah and I thought you know that's what
38:26
I want to do so now I'm age 63 my drum business is starting to grow yeah just
38:33
introduce full drum kits last summer so at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks
38:39
we're going to be showing full drum kits and made in the USA if we have a factory
38:47
outside of Kansas City so I'm just ecstatic with the way that this has
38:53
worked out well they are beautiful drums and you can tell that they're made in
38:58
the classic drum making fashion but they're modern do you have all of the
39:04
nice modern touches that we we've kind of that you will personally have learned
39:09
over the years of being in the Ludwig family so you're kind of getting the best of both worlds thank you thank you
39:16
very much that's what I set out to do when I first started which was with a snare drums which is the you know
39:23
starting point I thought but I wanted to get that old classic supersonic 400
39:32
sound and and so we have a metal shell aluminum metal and three plywood which
39:40
is thin wall shell with us support rings inside the way senior made them and both
39:47
those snare drums just sounds phenomenal and getting rave reviews from people who
39:54
are using them live and in the studio and then the next natural progression
39:59
was the kits which are the same thin wall which that the snare drums are and they just
40:06
sound phenomenal everybody that plays the kicks jumps up after five seconds it goes oh my god the classic sound yeah
40:13
the word has spread I've heard people talking about them and saying that they're unbelievable and and it's just
40:19
yeah so people I think people know and in jumping back here it's in in what I'm seeing in a weird turn of events I don't
40:27
know much about it but Khan ended up buying summer is that right yeah like
40:32
what Yukon just can't move on I know no the
40:40
whole thing is owned by Steinway piano company Wow yeah about five years ago Steinway came over and bought the Khan
40:47
Company which came along with summer Ludwig everybody else and three years
40:53
ago a real estate developer person that's worth eleven billion dollars with
41:00
a B rod Steinway the I I saw that name too and I was wondering how that person
41:06
got involved well he wanted Steinway for some reason I don't know if he needed pianos for his mansions or what but but
41:14
he's not paying a whole has a lot of attention to the rest of the instrument divisions he just focused on Steinway so
41:24
he got it and that's that's where it stands today and and I'm so happy to be
41:29
doing what I'm doing and not in that corporate venue of you know everything's
41:35
numbers of rings computer and everything's got to be this way so I'm
41:41
just really happy and with their own shop now which we've only had for a year it's so great I go down there and
41:48
occasion and my business partner lives down there and operates that end of it
41:53
but I get to go in the factory again and play and say hey what if we tried this
42:00
hey let's try that and if ya you're back to the old ways yeah and I'm lovin it
42:07
man for me it's a big thing that people are supporting the guy a true Ludwig and
42:13
it's just so funny that and I love how you call it WFL three draw in to me it obviously resembles the the
42:20
separation of your grandfather going out on his own and I mean it's just starting
42:27
over there's no better way to put it that's just perfect thank you thank you and my tagline for the company is the
42:34
sound of generations love it which which I think I think's very fitting and I
42:40
didn't do this on purpose but last spring I say I have a new endorser now
42:46
Kofi Baker and he is a fine fine percussionist and he got I don't know I
42:55
think was about a year ago or so he got Jack Bruce's son and Eric Clapton's
43:01
nephew together and said why don't we do a tour for the 50th anniversary of
43:06
creams last performance cool so they did a tour and on WFL three drums and it
43:16
doesn't get more generational than that and so the ludley they're lovely the third working with Kofi Baker yeah
43:24
that's awesome yeah so I want to tell people before we
43:29
move on I want I want to get to the questions that people have submitted but people can find you at WF l three drums
43:38
calm that's WFL III drums calm Roman numeral three yeah so and you can see
43:46
pictures you can see everything that bill has available and you can get in
43:52
touch with them and see the endorsers and all that cool stuff so really cool
43:57
congratulations on on thank you starting over yeah absolutely it's never too late
44:06
so as I said before I had some questions submitted by a few folks from Instagram
44:13
where if if people I'm assuming most people are finding me through Instagram because that's where I post a lot of
44:18
cool drum videos but if you're not you can go there and see a lot of cool videos and I open it up for people to
44:25
submit questions there so I will start out with a gentleman who has become a friend of mine Nate testa who wanted to ask what did
44:34
you learn while sitting behind the scenes watching what happened in your family with the company switching around
44:40
what have you taken from that and used in your current situation kind of like what is your knowledge what are your
44:46
watch outs that you're being careful of well you know as mentioned earlier Mike I was brought up by my grandfather and
44:53
father to have a quality product and top customer service and you can't go wrong
45:01
so I walked away with that very strong
45:07
feeling and and know it myself from YC if I could buy something I want
45:12
I expect customer service you know and cloudy and that's one thing that's
45:18
drives me mad when I call somebody at the phone company or cable company and
45:25
it pushed one for this guy push two for this push three for that why can't I just talk to somebody yes you know yeah
45:31
and you call WFL three drums and I answered the phone so it sounds like it's just all about customer service I
45:37
think that's just your entire family has been customer service top to bottom so
45:43
that's that again is from Nate test if I want to say actually has a he's on
45:49
social media as the official snare geek so I think he'll probably features some
45:55
WFL three snares on there and he does really cool reviews and all this kind of stuff so well I'll tell Nate that after
46:06
we got off the phone here today so um cool the next question I have is actually and it's interesting because
46:11
it's from a another friend of mine who's actually on the show his name is Vincent Leif and he runs vitalizer drums I don't
46:17
know if you've heard of him you'll get a kick out of this his business his job updating and repairing and modernizing
46:25
for lack of a better term speed king pedals Oh Vincent's question was we kind of talked
46:31
about it but if you can briefly give us a little picture of this he said what was the factory like in the 60s and 70s
46:37
Oh see how do I say this it was extremely busy
46:44
a lot of hustle and bustle of you know in those days it was people moving
46:49
materials by hand on on hand trucks or racks with you know rolling racks
46:57
nowadays you have a lot of conveyor belts or automated systems and stuff so
47:03
we're all you know hands-on and just a lot of action I mean you had to I as I
47:09
said to other I think people on tours we always had to you know stand in a certain place and not walk in a certain
47:16
place you'd get run over and it was just a lot of action and a lot of noise we
47:22
had punch presses knocking out the metal parts for the low-speed King for the
47:29
symbol stands for the high hats then we had the wood department saws going like
47:34
mad cutting the veneers for the shells and so I would I would just say well
47:40
hustle and bustle that's awesome I'm sure the days flew by oh yeah well and
47:46
that was one of the things that I really missed when we got rid of when we sold a company when I was invited to leave was
47:54
going in the factory I mean you know no more the sounds and the smells and I've
48:00
been the de manera no Factory was made into condominiums after Selmer moved
48:05
them moved the factories in North Carolina and I went in there one time because a drum teacher I know lives
48:12
there oh I was depressing it was dead quiet you know and I thought oh I gotta
48:18
get out of here the job right this is wrong yeah yeah cool okay great answer I
48:25
got two more we can quickly go through these this one is from a gentleman named
48:31
Robert what was it like growing up in the Ludwig household not only just like
48:37
sitting in front of the TV watching Ed Sullivan with the Beatles and it just blowing up but were there drummers
48:42
coming in and out where there was it really you know where people playing the drums all the time or was it a pretty
48:48
regular house you're just doing homework well it was it was a regular house to me
48:54
but looking back on it it was why I mean we had drummers coming through
49:01
constantly we had drums and timpani set up in the basement a couple of times
49:08
band came in there two of us and the whole band came into the house Wow Joe
49:14
Morello would always he was good friends with mom and dad and he'd come and spend the night at the house when he had a day
49:20
off in Chicago and I'd always pester him to you know come on uncle Joel sleep in
49:25
my lower bunk of a bunk bed and he'd play drums I'd watch on him
49:33
Buddy Rich was there a couple of times and it was crazy and you know a lot of
49:38
drummers coming through non-stop because what swimmers would come into the factory for a tour and then after that
49:45
we'd say well you know why don't you come out to the house for dinner and you
49:50
know and that was that was the routine and it was it was a riot when speaking speaking of Joe Morello though one of my
49:57
quick stories that just popped in my head I was in third grade mom and dad
50:03
were at the you know I went to the Dave Brubeck concerts with about a thousand people in the audience and we're
50:08
standing on the side of the stage I got my little shirt and tie on like I always did and all of a sudden joy was snare
50:16
drum just sounded awful and dad you know we noticed that this snare string broke
50:23
so David pushes me out on stage it says go get the prompt so I start to walk out
50:29
not sure I need to go get Joe snare drum he's still playing on the time times and I made the mistake of looking out at the
50:37
audience and I just froze and and I look back and Joe Joe's looking at me over
50:43
his glasses smiling and going come here come here so I get my courage up get out
50:50
there get the snare drum take it back to the side dad and I fix the string real
50:55
quick dad pushes me back out you know to deliver it and this time I didn't look anywhere except right at Joe put the
51:03
drum back on the stand and then he continued to play but Wow and I remember
51:09
it like it was last week that feeling when I looked the audience thought oh my god there's so many people that's awesome what I
51:16
like is about all this is just you're not you didn't take it for granted I feel like you've enjoyed every moment of being in a drum family oh yeah my final
51:25
question would be so I did an interview with Jim Moretz who is the of the
51:30
Chicago drum company who grew up working at Slingerland now I know there's some
51:38
growing up slingerland and ludwig were like competitors obviously they were competitors they were you guys were
51:44
butting heads arch enemies so yeah he said there was some stories about people
51:51
from Ludwig would be going and looking through the dumpsters to see what slingerland was working on and he said
51:56
I'm sure Slingerland was doing that so the Ludwig boys do you have any any kind of tales of deceit or deception with the
52:05
Slingerland crew well Jim story is partially correct saying that someone
52:12
from Ludwig went through their dumpster it wasn't someone from Ludwig it was my father and the way yeah and this
52:20
happened one day in high school on a Saturday I'm in my room and dad comes
52:26
and he goes come on take a ride with me oh okay get my shoes
52:32
on and I start to follow him out to the garage and on our way out I said where are we going
52:37
he goes we're going up to Suellen I'm going through the dumpster you're gonna watch for the police wait a minute I'm
52:46
not anything to do with this and he was fine I'll go by myself and off he goes he comes back like three hours later
52:54
with a trunk load of crap he pulled out of their dumpster of cut-up shells and
53:00
strainers they're working on and he seems look at this look at the door I can't believe they're working on a new
53:06
serie but you know like wow and so that
53:11
was my dad doing it and he also would go to sailing there around noon time to
53:18
count how many cars were in the parking lot to estimate their employees how many employees they had
53:24
man so it consumes it's consuming to the fight between between slinger oh oh oh
53:30
yeah yeah and I you know I never met God's Ireland Butthead I probably would
53:37
have kicked him in the balls because you're you're raised to hate the
53:44
Slingerland family yeah well obviously Slingerland is no more their their
53:50
trademark is owned by Gibson I believe but you know so I think Ludwig won in
53:56
the end oh yeah well bill I think I think that wraps it
54:02
up I think that's a great ending hearing about the the feud between slingerland and knowing that the the disdain was
54:08
even more than I anticipated so oh yeah that's great well thank you Bill have a
54:15
great day if you like this podcast find
54:22
me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like
54:27
to learn about the future until next time keep on learning this is a Gwynn
54:32
sound podcast you [Music]